Zoe McKenzie MP
Shadow Cabinet Secretary
Shadow Assistant Minister for Employment and Industrial Relations
Federal Member for Flinders
TRANSCRIPT
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING WITH PATRICIA KARVELAS AND PETER KHALIL
Wednesday, 12 August 2026
Topics: Gambling advertising; Melongate; Australia-Japan relations.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: I want to bring in my political panel to end the show. Peter Khalil is the Assistant Defence Minister. Zoe McKenzie is the Liberal MP for Flinders and the Shadow Cabinet Secretary. Welcome to both of you.
ZOE MCKENZIE: Thank you.
PETER KHALIL: Hey.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Andrew Wallace made it quite clear that he thinks you should opt in, not have to opt out.
ZOE MCKENZIE: Look, passionate voices on all sides. I’m mindful of my friend Simon Kennedy, speaking in the chamber as we speak, and he’s been very passionate about this from the word go. I find so many of us today have actually had a personal experience, a close friend, a family friend, somebody who’s really struggled with a gambling addiction and that’s had really devastating effects on the entire family unit. I hear those stories far more frequently than I should have. And it’s not about where we were 20 or 30 years ago in terms of having a flutter and maybe occasionally having too much of a flutter. This is a fire hose of gambling advertising, both on television and especially online. The anecdote that I have mentioned a number of times now is when I was in Tasmania, at a public boys’ school, kids from years 7 to 9, before the social media ban came into effect, and Daniel Principe, who works with boys and men, said, how many of you have seen an ad for gambling in your social media feed in the last week? And every kid’s hand went up. I was in shock. I don’t see gambling ads. I don’t know how they know that I’m not interested, but they do, but they also know these young men are really ripe for, you know, the happy times that these ads show. Be with your mates, have a good time, spend some money. But it’s really dangerous, and we need to do something.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: So don’t you need to go further, like Andrew Wallace says?
ZOE MCKENZIE: We have been asking the government to go further.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yeah, on inducements, but not on opting in.
ZOE MCKENZIE: Oh, I think… to certain… In the last week, everything’s been on the table. Sarah Henderson’s been doing an amazing job trying to get it strengthened. We’ll see where it lands, but it’s important that as a government, as a parliament, as Australians, we do more to address it.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Andrew Wilkie says that your government has been basically in the hands of the gambling community. He’s referred it to NACC, because he thinks the gambling industry is having too much of an influence in determining this.
PETER KHALIL: Yeah, I saw that question today, Patricia, and he was impugning on people. There was no actual allegations, and if he’s got any evidence, you put it forward. But I think on this point, across the parliament, across the aisle, different members of parliament, regardless of their political background, have been talking and debating this legislation. I’ve been a fierce advocate for stronger anti-gambling reform. I mean, even before I got into politics, when I was at SBS, when I was part of the team that banned gambling advertising before the A-League matches and at halftime, the damage is real, the evidence is there. I’m really hopeful that the negotiation between the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition can land legislation, because what’s important is that we actually pass something, because what’s being put forward, and I know we’re debating it and looking at other elements of it, is the strongest set of anti-gambling reforms that have ever been put to the parliament. So we want to get that across the line and then build upon it. That’s not the end of the story, we should be building on. We’ll get as much as we can.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: That’s an interesting point. You’re saying it’s not the end of the story.
PETER KHALIL: It shouldn’t be the end of the story. I mean, there is a lot of evidence out there. I mean, I met with some, you know, St Vinnie de Paul’s and Salvos today and so on. Like, young boys, I mean, Zoe was talking about young boys. Some of them have 12 subscriptions. You know, 25% of kids under 18 having, like, the apps and so on, or even being getting free NBA that they could watch as part of the app and so on. So there’s lots of things that we can look at.to do. But I think it is important that this parliament does pass anti-gambling reforms and start to actually address this issue because nothing has been put forward. I don’t… I mean, Peta Murphy was a friend of mine. She did an incredible job. So many advocates and activists have been fighting for this. I know the realities of the situation with respect to mainstream media and revenue streams and all the rest of it. But I think we need to take action and it’s our responsibility as a parliament to do it.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Alright, I want to change the topic in the last few minutes we have to Melon Gate, as we are now referring to it, the melons and the Japanese Prime Minister. On this issue, the Prime Minister says, referring it to the Australian Federal Police, this correspondence between Japan and Australia is a stunt. Japan’s put… Japanese embassy’s put out a statement. They’re down… They’re basically suggesting it’s not such a big deal. They’ve broken their silence. Why are you pursuing something that the Japanese say they’re not watching?
ZOE MCKENZIE: My understanding is, and, Pete, you’ll correct me if I’m wrong, is that the Prime Minister’s office have shown cables to members of the Australian media. Now, I’ve worked in the Trade Minister’s office. I can assure you if I ever showed anybody a classified cable, I would have been hauled up against the people who say that’s not what we’re allowed to do. So, something’s gone on here that’s not quite right. But let’s not hide from the principal story here, which is that the Prime Minister has shown extraordinary diplomatic daftness. Not deafness. Pete’s worked in international relations most of his life, so have I. We’re very careful about what we say and to whom we say it. It was stupid. It was… I’m almost on a unity ticket with Zali, which is hard to imagine. But nevertheless, you know, it was just dumb. And somebody in the Prime Minister’s office should have warned him before he went on to that that you’re going to be asked some pretty silly questions that are, frankly, beneath the stature of the Prime Minister. But he doubled down and delivered an absolutely graceless response. It’s not hard to say sorry. He should just say it quickly to the Parliament.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Should he just say sorry?
PETER KHALIL: Well, I mean, I think the thing here is that he’s…The Prime Minister’s been clear that he’s been misrepresented and mischaracterised what happened. And I think…
ZOE MCKENZIE: They were his own hands, Pete.
PETER KHALIL: Hold on. I’ve got, like, one second in, so do better, as Zali said. But we… But, like, obviously, from the Japanese side, they’ve been very clear there’s no ill will there.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Well, they won’t say that, though. That’s what they do, that’s diplomacy.
PETER KHALIL: Yeah, but there is a view that there’s been a fair bit of sensationalisation of this in our media as well. I think what’s important, and the PM has talked about this, is that he has a wonderful working relationship with the Japanese Prime Minister. The state of the relationship with Japan and… between Japan and Australia is at its best for decades, if not ever. And this real substance and weight to relationship, from my perspective in defence, the Mogami-class frigates, $10 billion in investment in that, the $8 billion Mitsui investment in our critical minerals, these are real things, tangible things, that demonstrate how good the relationship is.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, right of reply for you before we say goodbye?
ZOE MCKENZIE: I think that there’s a strong relationship there by the grace of the Japanese Prime Minister, not by the grace of the Australian Prime Minister.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, so you think the Prime Minister…
ZOE MCKENZIE: I think it was crass and it was cheap.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: All of that might be true, but does it require an apology or can it move on?
ZOE MCKENZIE: Well, I just think we all need to take a deep breath and think about what we do on social media in particular. I get that everybody wants to be human and relatable and authentic.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Relatable.
ZOE MCKENZIE: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but to be just… grubby…
PETER KHALIL: Are we relatable?
ZOE MCKENZIE: Yeah, you and I. Of course we are, tiger.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: Yeah, I don’t know.
ZOE MCKENZIE: But grubby, no thanks, right? And stupid and fanciful, like some of the stuff you see coming out, may I say, from your side, it’s just beneath who we are and what we do in this building. People need to think carefully about what we do. I know that might mean we’re boring, but I’d rather be boring and adult than childish and hold the attention from 32 seconds to 35.
PATRICIA KARVELAS: What a statement. I’d rather be boring. We’ll leave it there. Hopefully it wasn’t boring, because I want people to watch this show. Thank you to both of you.
ENDS.
